In this episode of This Is Democracy, I was joined by my old friend and frequent contributor, Dr. Michael Kimmage, a historian with unparalleled expertise on the war in Ukraine. Our conversation delved deep into the relentless suffering of this conflict and its immense geopolitical complexities, offering a sobering and insightful perspective.
Michael began by describing the duality of the war—a conflict that is both horrifically local and unfathomably global. “The real misery is going from village to village, street to street,” he explained, emphasizing the profound human cost at the most granular level. He called this war “relentlessly, ruthlessly local.” At the same time, he reminded us of its global implications: “This is unambiguously the world’s war.” The introduction of foreign troops, from North Korea and Yemen, highlights the expanding international dimensions of a war that began as Ukraine’s fight for sovereignty.
Zachary’s opening poem, The Village, captured this devastation poignantly. “Knowing already where the market is, knowing already where the landmines are,” he wrote, bringing us into the lives of those most affected. Michael was visibly moved, calling Zachary’s imagery a reminder of the relentless suffering experienced by individuals caught in the crosshairs. “It’s about people,” he said, “their street corner, their apartment block.” This personal dimension often gets lost amidst strategic discussions, but Michael urged us to remember: these are lives, not abstractions.
When discussing the current state of the war, Michael painted a grim but nuanced picture. “This war doesn’t have simple geometry,” he observed, noting the fluidity of the battlefield. While Russia has made small but steady advances, Ukraine faces a harsh winter compounded by relentless attacks on civilian infrastructure. He resisted calling the conflict a stalemate, noting that its fluidity and escalating violence defy easy categorization.
The human cost of the war is staggering. In Russia, the suffering is unevenly distributed, with casualties disproportionately borne by the poor and rural regions, leaving urban centers like Moscow and St. Petersburg insulated. Ukraine, by contrast, is grappling with the unrelenting reality of war. Civilians live in constant fear of attacks on hospitals, shopping malls, and schools. “The war has no time horizon,” Michael lamented, describing the psychological toll of what feels like an endless conflict.
Our conversation inevitably turned to the role of diplomacy and the looming influence of the upcoming U.S. administration. Michael speculated on the potential for Trump to attempt a negotiated settlement with Putin, potentially bypassing Ukraine’s leadership. Drawing a parallel to the U.S. strategy in Vietnam, he warned of the challenges and risks of such an approach. “The U.S. has leverage,” he noted, “but not complete leverage.” Ukraine’s unwillingness to concede territory or neutrality remains a significant obstacle, and Michael emphasized the importance of ensuring that any settlement is enforceable. “Signing a deal is one thing,” he said. “Implementing it is another.”
Michael’s insights were enriched by historical perspective. He reminded us of the U.S.’s Cold War diplomacy, specifically its refusal to abandon Baltic sovereignty even while recognizing Soviet dominance. “A three-quarters victory, even a half victory, is sometimes great in Eastern Europe,” he argued. Patience and long-term commitment, he insisted, are essential to navigating the complexities of the region.
Zachary offered a poignant observation about how young Americans perceive the war. While some may feel numb to the conflict, he highlighted the growing cultural and academic connections to Ukraine, noting the presence of Ukrainian students on campuses as a powerful bridge. Michael built on this, stressing the importance of educating Americans about the history of Eastern Europe to foster realistic expectations. “We have to think long-term,” he urged. “Patience is essential.”
The episode concluded with a profound message: the war in Ukraine is not just a geopolitical chess game; it is a human tragedy that requires both immediate attention and enduring commitment. “Let’s not set the bar too high,” Michael advised, “but let’s stick with our guns and support Ukraine’s territorial integrity. That precedent will shape Europe’s future.” His words reminded us that diplomacy, at its best, is a balance of pragmatism and aspiration, a careful dance between compromise and the pursuit of enduring values.
As always, democracy demands that we learn, adapt, and strive for better, even in the face of the worst. I am grateful for Michael’s insights, for Zachary’s moving poetry, and for all of you who continue to engage with these crucial discussions.
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